Under this new proposal, The Mittani would have been voted King, plus two people he deemed as alternates in the Queen and Prince positions. Without even trying to game the system, the CFC would now have three candidates on the CSM.

I want proof that this STV idea was discussed in previous CSM.

CSM 6 did a good job, so eliminating it outright because of two bad examples (CSM 5, CSM 7) is silly.

So any attempt to alter the voting system by getting people to vote or altering the way the voting is done will produce a thread naught about how badly off they would be.

Now with all things like this the CSM must decide if you just go off the forums you will have a campaign by Goonswarm to prevent any real discussion on the matter.

You might try to think this out rather than screaming against it, this proposal by its self will do nothing to stop 10,000 votes from getting someone on the CSM. It would however reduce candidates like Darius III getting re-elected as he would have less chance of scamming another candidate out of their votes.

But the main problems facing the CSM are not even this they are more to do with re-activating old accounts (or making new ones) to vote and the lack of people who actually vote.

I play the game entirely to touch myself while moving the breast size slider in the character creator. Where is my representative?

Using your vote management systems (which Mittens was quite proud of last time around), you would simply allocate those votes between your two candidates. Doing it 60/40 or even 70/30 would have put both of you into the top 7. Let's assume you also want another CFC domain expert on CSM. Split your votes 55/25/25 and you'll get 1 in the top 7 and the other two into the bottom 7.

You can do this under the current system, and under CD-STV. You are no worse off.

On a personal level, I want the CSM to be a more effective working body. I believe that by reforming the voting system, we can improve the overall quality of the candidates -- and the resulting council.

This really is minorities are us.

Have you guys considered working for lobby groups.

Next you could accuse the CSM of racism or sexism or maybe of being a foul polluter of the planet..

They are the elected representatives it is after all there call and if they screw it up the next election will indeed hold them accountable.

If you don't like this initial proposal, counter it with your own and let's see what we can all come up with.

There IS a lot of tinfoil BS in this thread with regard to why this thread exists and I make no apologies for being annoyed by it.

3) Reduce (but not eliminate) the advantages held by highly organized voting blocs.

well said anyway my honest opinion to make it as fair at least as at the election process that only a certian number of people from each place actively gets in

when did i ever say that ?

i never said that either you would get your vote dosent mean to say your guy will get on but that may not be the case in the first place not every politicion gets into government infact a lot of them dont.

You said you're giving 2 seats to nullsec, 2 to low, 2 to high and 2 to WH. If you pigeonhole 20000 votes from the nullsec blocs into two seats, while 3000 votes from WH also get two seats, how do the 20000 votes not count for less than the 3000?

or is it your all flooding the forums scared that you may lose influance in the grand sceam of things ?

i dunno were you from but over in the uk we have regional votes witch dictate who has seets in the government dictated by region yes its a bit of a stretch of a comparison but the bassic same underlaying thought and result is achieved by my suggestion.

If the CSM is trying to create a system where general play styles are represented a fixed number of places per. game style will mean that you get the scenario you outline above.

no that is correct but every region has its representative

no i said 2 in my original proposal will it be 2 will it maybe be 3 from null i dunno its upto ccp im just putting up and outlining my suggestion.

but if you went on the bassis of everyone in the game voting (i know this dont happen but bear with me) a null sec and wh vote would infact be worth more as im sure hi sec could produce more possible canddates than null.

If they are concerned that all areas of the game aren't getting represented well I'm simply saying instead of this rather convoluted process where they try and juggle the votes to make it be as representatives as they feel it should be, they just split up seats into gaming styles and let people vote for say guys who do want to buff lvl4 missions standing for the high sec seat.

To be honest, I'm VERY surprised at the number of Goonswarm posting that things should be kept exactly the same. You want to talk disenfranchisement, the over 10,000 votes for TheMitanni got thrown out because of his banning after he got elected. Are you guys sure you think NOTHING needs to be changed?

So we cant have a system I'd consider perfect, but the current one isn't good enough. We have a very intelligent player community including large groups of players who love to game/break systems (CFC comes to mind but they're not alone by any means) so let's talk about what the solution should be.

I think goons are wrong to prefer the current system over any others, but I cannot fault them for having reached the decision that given Trebor's approach, which the rest of the CSM has not disclaimed as it should have, the CSM cannot be trusted to make changes and so leaving the system alone is the best option of those available.

I know there's a substantial portion of the game that has beef with the ability of Goons and other 0.0 bloc to put candidates on the council in greater proportion than they "deserve." I'm also not surprised any attempt to address that is met with much resistance by said blocs. Neither surprises me, and i did/do realize Trebor's post did not address a major problem I see with the existing electoral system.

How the **** do you think anyone'll come up with a system which will fit in the criterias which "The CSM" will approve of, without trying (and failing to) assfuck the CFC/HBC's votes?

So have it? One paragraph from an IDEA the OP used to start a conversation 20+ pages ago has you sperging out like crazy.

the preferance of people is to have an equal representation on the csm council

Now that I'm back from sailing and still a little drunk.

Hello people! I need to catch up on all the pages on this thread but I'll get it done soon.

Basically, changing the voting system isn't really a bad thing as long as it's done intelligently. EVE Players are almost always against any form of change historically. But after the dust settles and they get a chance to get used to it, all is well (most of the time anyways)

I also think that [Trebor is] a mature enough guy thatGÇÖs not going to allow his dislike for of one person to lead him on a path that refuses to allow compromise on a topic he's specifically asked for feedback on.

I don't think that itGÇÖs his intent nor the CSM as a whole to anally abusing the GoonNation. They believe that there is an issue with the voting system.

So that begs the question, why don't they do it, then?

As far as I'm aware, the only CSM who hasn't accepted that the "nerf goons" aspect of the proposal is not a good idea during the course of the related threads is the person who posted it.

Unwilling to accept victory, then calls became "while it's still there, edit it!" which I'd be happy to oblige A. If i had Trebors log in and B. If I thought it'd actually help anything. Hans has spent the better part of 8 pages trying to be the bigger man and easily 50% of replies are still ad hominem attacks, straw men, or just repeating "**** goons" over and over as if a significant portion of the CSM is still standing behind it.

It's time to realize: they're not. I'm not. Hans isn't. Seleene isn't. Two Step isn't. Dovi isn't. The list goes on. By any objective standard Goons have "won" but Goonrushing past the endzone isn't much of a peace plan. Saying nothing needs to be changed is a perfectly legitimate piece of feedback.

I don't wholely agree, I think there's somethings we could do better at. Having a smaller field of strong candidates so voters aren't flooded with choice by joke candidates is one area (which may help improve diversity, improve quality of elected councils, and increase voter turn out) and better handling a "Mitannigate" situation where an elected CSM can't take office, specifically. None of those have anything to do with "**** goons."

I don't have the ability to edit posts Trebor makes, in the CSM's name or otherwise. Neither does Hans or anyone else. If you are mad at Trebor because he won't retroactively go back and wipe that line from his OP, be mad. But, at least in my mind, the issue is closed and that concept is a non-starter. I am fairly certain the overwhelming majority of the CSM would share that view at this point.

I don't see how his post still existing is a legitimate reason to completely shout down any discussion about other areas of disagreement or potential improvements in how we elect our CSMs or treating like **** CSM like Hans who are trying to talk in good faith. I was, am, and will be dismissive and flippant about those that continue on shouting when the "other side" has already conceded the point. Hans is a lot more patient than I am in that regard, actually engaging with people and doing his best to pick out the sensible comments amid a sea of trolling. Even Seleene took time out of dealing with his RL to try to reengage this discussion with a good starting point and talk reasonably with people seeing red.

They are both still getting **** on, and posters like Poetic wonder why other CSM aren't lining up to speak. To quote Rainbow Dash: "Yeah, it's a mystery."